Friday, February 06, 2004
Hello,I appreciate all the time and thought going into this. Ideas no matter how far out they may seem helps us
to focus and become more intuned to the goal. There seems to be a divide I see between the need for analytical thought (based on cost/upkeep factors) and the spirit of the enterprise (to create an aesthetic atmosphere that fully accomodates all the projected needs of the Church of Christ). As I understand it we are most concerned with the ability to afford this building once it has been constructed. That being said I presume that the initial added expenses will be facilitated by God's body of believers somewhere out there amonst the world.
Now, I still like the basement idea and have a compromise solution. As I said before the basement idea
could be full or partial and upon greater consideration I think a partial basement may still be an overall good choice.
My thought is this: 1. Keep everything on a slab up to where the Tee ends at the front of the auditorium. This would include the entire entrance, Baths, Kitchen, nursery, classrooms, and all the seating in the auditorium. 2. The rest put over a basement. This includes the wing immediately after the seating. 3. All the benefits I mentioned before (storage, access, furnace, etc.) can still be realized with this plan. 4. The
exterior door to the basement (pending feasibility of excavation) can be situated at the very back of the building thereby making it invisible to the neighborhood in general. 5. There is no need to extend a
driveway since it is likely it will house a riding mower and snow blower. In the event the church was to get
its own plow truck in the future there still would be no need to extend the driveway since the use of the truck would be so limited.
posted by Larry @ 7:28 PM
If we are to heat the building full time (as I now understand it's best to do), I would be in favor of the floor heating. It's very efficient (from what i understand) and I think the best reason for it is that it is completely hidden and unobtrusive.
If we have a basement and use it as a storage area we will need the driveway to wrap around to it increasing our inital expense.
I REALLY hate to say this but I think we may need to do another survey with more specific questions about ,sizeand seating, baptistry, and activities we would like to hold.
Reason being that (and I agree) if we spend 300+ thousand dollars on a building we only use a few hours once a week we are doing a horrible disservice to ourselves and God. I feel that when we do decide to build we should have more in mind than a place to sit and listen to jesse. Craig I like your dining room analogy but if you were going to build an addition you wouldn't build it so that you could seat everyone in a cramped manner. This project has been in the works for a long time I don't want to blow it by building too small. It should be big enough to hold us until we have the membership to support something different. This is critical: if we outgrow (by outgrow I mean the building is uncomfortable) this building before we have the membership to expand we're screwed.
(I really like being able to think about what I am saying It took about an hour for me to write this but it's exactly what I want to say thank guys for supporting this format)
posted by Neshobee @ 7:22 PM
Hello,
Thanks Shobee. As Craig said, the blog is a good idea.
Thanks Craig for all your imput and needed thoughts.
Here is a thought that popped into my head immediately after I had posted my last message. I am thinking of the garage/storage consideration. Why can't we put a garage under the church building? If I understand correctly the problem of needing an elevator and handicap baths are only necessary for areas requiring public access. A basement/storage/garage, in my mind, does not fall under the area of public access. A storage building eslwhere on the property would not be called public access and it seems reasonable therefore to disqualify a basement as public access by limiting its use. Instead, a basement (full or partial) could be put under the church building for any or all of the following. 1. To house the furnace and oil tank 2. To provide maintenance access to lots of plumbing including the baptistry 3. To house the hot water tank if needed 4. To house the main breaker panel 5. To provide storage for various items 6. To possibly provide an area of parking for a plow/snow blower and riding mower.
This also would eliminate the need for a heated concrete pad. What do you think?
posted by Larry @ 9:42 AM
We need to remember these plans are based on a minimum necessity. A garage in the future is a possibility, but site plans do not indicate that and the initial permiting didn't provide for that - my recollection being Carol has that information. (In fact, I suspect all permiting has expired but don't know that for sure - usually there is a statute on this, and that may include water allocation - again I think Carol has this information.)
If a garage is contemplated, we need to remember to have that included in the design and site plan from the architect for any future local and state permits and to make sure the design and proportions are compatible with our building and neighbors. We always need to keep resale in mind AS WE ARE GOING TO OUTGROW
our facility. That means it may not always be used for a church building and the new owner will most likely have to pay taxes on the property. That means a $400,000.00 building & lot investment would cost a future owner presently about $11, 520.00 per year in taxes. (Rumor has it the City tax rate is going to increase by 30 cents per hundred and typically the Town and City are close, so that could be $12,720.00). Also, the more "generic" our plan on the exterior, the more uses it has in the future. (One reason I like the McKnight plan).
One thought...I need a dining room that comfortably seats 12-14 for the holdidays (8-10 meals a year). I can't justify financially such an addition, but emotionally - because I love my family -it is a necessity for me. I can, however, justify a table that seats 12-14 comfortably and extends into or takes over another room. Any space we use, we should make sure it will be used on a fairly consistent basis. It all has to be cleaned after each function, and it all has to be heated etc. We need to be careful in not allowing a building to "own" us. That is my biggest fear - we need a facility that allows us the freedom to "bring in the sheep". That means time, committment to souls, and financial help to those that need it and a building.
I like the blog concept Shobee - it works. I also, like the plotting of the building within our interior space. It gives us a great idea and visual. The feedback is great and allows for good dialogue - thanks for coming up with it. I know we're all on the same team and love it.
Craig
posted by Craig @ 7:40 AM
Hey Building Team Members - This is a test to see if I made the Blog.
Craig
posted by Craig @ 7:35 AM
Thursday, February 05, 2004
I went to the grange today to set up some chairs to get an idea of how much 'footage' a row of chairs would take up. Since I had the plans I kind of sketched out in my mind what the plans show. I was very surprised at how small the worship area is. To put it in perspective, from where the plans say the pulpit is if that is equated with the edge of the stage at the grange the back wall would be behind where our first row of chairs are. Even by adding in the extra 4 feet in all directions it still doesn't have enough room for 2 columns of chairs (now I understand why Don had the seating in one big section).I have also thought about your thoughts (Jesse) about the 80% comfort factor. This may be the case in a worship only setting, but we have to also use this area for tables and chairs for fellowship. We will definitely take up more space during pot luck compared to worship.
I talk more Sunday when I can illustrate more.
(I do like the idea of a garage/shed)
posted by Neshobee @ 10:48 PM
I like what Jesse said about using my 3D software to create a potential visual of Church Building. One problem is that I have never figured how to use the software to create the roof structure. I can do the floor with all the rooms and windows and doors and limited furniture. It can do all the fictures for the baths and kitshen. The program has some wiring capabilities but I do not remember any for plumbing. I do not remember if the software can create a ramp. The software allows you to change colors of rooms. It has side views, top and angle views and does do a virtual tour. The software does limited exterior like fountains, rocks, and trees but I do not think it can create a parking area or driveway or streetlights. I would need the exact dimensions of entire building inside and out. If doors and windows need to match code I would need those dimensions as well. The software will place any feature to the exact inch the user requires.
Craig, your thought on storage is a definite consideration. Does anyone think a combo garage/storage facility might be feasible. The church may get its own plow down the road. A unit as this could provide storage as well as cover for a plow (or snow blower) and a riding mower.
Larry
posted by Larry @ 8:45 PM
Shobee:
I was thinking about the "editing" of the plans and it occurred to me,
that we will still need a fairly substantial storage area for brooms,
mops, pails, salt, shovels, lawnmowers, weedwacker, rakes, bushel
baskets, trash and trash cans, gasoline, barbeque grill & propane tank
or grill and charcoal, storage of outdoor items - volley ball nets,
wheelbarrow, tarps, picnic tables and chairs, ladders, tools etc. etc.
If heated space, this also could be our food pantry storage and misc.
paint, carpeting, lawn & garden fertilizers, cleaning supplies, and the
like. The point being, you may want to keep this in mind if we take
over the the spaces we talked about last night and "lose" the
mechanical/storage room while doing your sketches.
posted by Neshobee @ 4:38 PM
Shobee,
What the heck am I doing...what is this??
posted by Jesse @ 9:10 AM
Wednesday, February 04, 2004
Welcome!posted by Neshobee @ 8:41 PM
- 02/01/2004 - 02/07/2004
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- 02/15/2004 - 02/21/2004
- 02/22/2004 - 02/28/2004
- 02/29/2004 - 03/06/2004
